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Digit diaspora
yep, gonna need to start using more/other/better measures than "GDP". iirc, the creator of GDP as a measure, warned it should never be used as we use it now.
Farhad diaspora
We really meed to stop this vicious cycle of buy and throw mentality.

In the last year. I tried with a new system that works for me.

One week per month, I buy nothing. Try to use what ever I have.

At first it was hard, but now its like a routine. I completely cut back on some items I don't need. Changed my breakfast habits, and stopped impulse buying.

The thing that really hard to resist is all those fake holidays imposed to us to force us to buy things we don't need.

Refusing to accept advertisement in mail was also one of the major impacts on that. No temptation of "saving" when buying things I already have and works great, but they are just old.
@Farhad frugalité. Buying is not living
Digit diaspora
a buy-nothing-week, sounds like a great idea.

being fairly poor, with necessities costing more than my income, i have more like 3 weeks per month like that, not by choice.

but i'll try keep that in mind should i ever become monetarily comfortable.
The thing that really hard to resist is all those fake holidays imposed to us to force us to buy things we don't need.
Which ones ?
Farhad diaspora
Holloween, valentines day, fathers day, mothers day, etc.
Digit diaspora
speaking of being forced into buying things not needed,
"The entire institution of gift giving makes no sense.
You know what you need, whereas I have to guess what you need."
-- Sheldon Cooper
as i had engraved on the underside of my wooden chopping board that i bought for myself after being given a plastic one as a gift (which is still in its wrapping).
As it is generally true, sometimes (when you take the time) a gift can really be valuable, and not just because the gifted didn't allow him/herself to buy it.
And to catch up with @Squeeek GPS, giving our time for a nice moment can be the best gift ever.

Less time spent on "mandatory gifts", it is more time to know each others.
fred diaspora
if you gona use one stuff every day / week, buy it and get top quality ( top quality stuff bough second hand is a real good deal ).

if you gona use one stuff less than once a month, borrow it, rent it or try to find something else you already have that can do the job ( even not perfectly).
Digit diaspora
As it is generally true, sometimes (when you take the time) a gift can really be valuable, and not just because the gifted didn’t allow him/herself to buy it.
Less time spent on “mandatory gifts”, it is more time to know each others.
well said @Nartagnan
"mandatory gifts" - on my last round birthday I asked for addition to my donation budget and explained what to use for, they liked it.
LessConsumptionNotLessPeople just wanted to make that distinction!
Less people too! Members of our specie are too many on earth. We don't have enough resources to feed them all, we steal habitats of others species to build our homes and motorway, etc...
Digit diaspora
@durand_eric@framasphere.org
Less people too! Members of our specie are too many on earth. We don’t have enough resources to feed them all, we steal habitats of others species to build our homes and motorway, etc…
dangerous lies.

we do not have too many people

we have a resource mismanagement problem.

with proper management of resources, this world can sustain >300 TRILLION. (not that i encourage such. only to say we have a lot more headroom with proper resource management)

so take your apparent subtextual advocacy of genocide away. and take the georgia guidestones with you. no need to kill billions just because unwilling to adjust resource management.

if unwilling to do the maths and imagine the resource management paradigm necessary to sustain such huge numbers, and still insistent on population reduction, then i suggest #spaceshipsforeverybody. though ironically, the unsupressing and utilisation of such technologies that would enable that, are largely the same technologies that would enable a better resource management (and even larger populations).

so, i'm sorry, i know that "too many people" propaganda gets quipped and parroted a lot, but under scrutiny, it does not hold up at all. as vulgar as it is stupid.
Digit diaspora
bring on the forest archologies i say.
with proper management of resources, this world can sustain >300 TRILLION
I hope you're joking about that number.

We live on a finite planet, with finite resources, that can sustain a finite number of people. We are currently overusing our resources and energy and overpolluting the planet, and the more people are around, the harder the challenge. Improving lives of the poorest requires more resources still. So we can and must improve resource use, and reduce overconsumption among the wealthier people, but the population size is also part of the problem.
Pascale diaspora
@Noam Bergman,
I agree with you.
Humanity is an invasive and harmful species.
your apparent subtextual advocacy of genocid
Who is talking about genocide ? (unless you think that contraception is genocide). We have only one planet and she is dying because of our specie. We must reduce the number of human being and change our way of living now. Maybe it's too late, which is not a bad thing. I think it's time for our specie to get out of the planet so the other animals can live their life.
I think it's time for our specie to get out of the planet so the other animals can live their life.
More than genocide that sounds like speciescide.

You are favoring one live over another, that sounds quite fascistic.

When it's all over nature will rebuild the diversity of the planet anyway.
There were mass extinction events before.
Would mamels exist and reign if dinosaurs hadn't perished?

To me it seems that this is not about if human kind exists or not, nore how many.
It's about what we do, why we do it and how we do it.

We recieve every bad news like doomsday news.
At the same time it's true that there are less people starving today than in the past.
Less people dying in wars than in the past.
Less wars than in the past.

We have to learn to focus more on the news that gives us a path way to a sustainable future.

Our biology makes us over represent the bad news, other wise we would perish because we eat the wrong mushroom or play with venemous animales.

Our biology makes us repeat the behaviour we observed in our youth because that was the behaviour that led to the survival of our "ancestors".

The speed of tecnical evolution and it's impact is faster than the system homo sapiens developed to handel and hand over cultural achivement that asured survival and improvement of the living standard of the group.

Know yourself, know your enemy.
At this stage we are our own enemy, we can study us from within and challenge our enemy from within.
More than genocide that sounds like speciescide. You are favoring one live over another, that sounds quite fascistic.
No it's not. It's just a fact. When you have a virus you try to eliminate it to save your body right ? Or are you killing it because virus is not from our specie ?
Human being is the problem on earth. We are too greedy to stop the disaster,. Our extinction might be sooner than we think. It will be a relief for earth.
Digit diaspora
I hope you’re joking about that number.
nope. did the maths years ago.

the emphasis is not on that number, extracted out of context. the emphasis is on with proper resource management.
We are currently overusing our resources and energy and overpolluting the planet, and the more people are around, the harder the challenge.
we're being absurdly outragesously wasteful, squanderous and harmful with our resources. if we keep being so ignorant and abusive, then yes, increasing the number of people doing that will increase "the challenge". the point i'm making is that we can change the resource management paradigm, to no longer be harmful and wasteful in the outrageous extremes we do, and can actually start being synergistic boons to each other, such that we have a vast higher headroom.

the finality of a resource use is so maddening to those of us who see the recycling potential of a continuum, rather than a use creating a burden. the generation of energy that creates multiple burdens, rather than the clean emancipating routes long since developed, is likewise maddening.

we do not need to kill or castrate people, just so we can go on being utterly shit-brained toxic polluters.
Digit diaspora
Who is talking about genocide ? (unless you think that contraception is genocide). We have only one planet and she is dying because of our specie. We must reduce the number of human being and change our way of living now. Maybe it’s too late, which is not a bad thing. I think it’s time for our specie to get out of the planet so the other animals can live their life.
you are, apparently. seems you dont seem to realise it.

"We must reduce the number of human being and change our way of living now." how else will the numbers be reduced "now"? unless you're missing some punctuation there (or advocate positive eco-socio-technological solutions as i do). ... but i doubt it, given what next you said... comparing humans to a virus needing eradication. speciecide it is.
No it’s not. It’s just a fact. When you have a virus you try to eliminate it to save your body right ? Or are you killing it because virus is not from our specie ?
Human being is the problem on earth. We are too greedy to stop the disaster,. Our extinction might be sooner than we think. It will be a relief for earth.
your convictions look oriented to get us all killed needlessly. other, better, kinder solutions exist.

i mentioned spaceships for everybody... that's one way to get more people off the planet (tho, as i've said, we do not have a problem of the number of people on the planet... given we have vast unused resources, and vast detrimental squanderance of resources creating unsustainable burdens). but it's not something we can just snap our fingers, and all get the toys the #nro have been hoarding to themeslves in black budget programs, and nor will it suddenly transpire while everyone's goal is not that, but a cull instead. maddening.

i wonder if ohter fascists of the past likewise told themselves they were not fascists, n told themselves they were doing a good and necessary thing, while mass murdering millions.
#nro
Limiting population is not genocide, e.g., China's one child policy was not genocide. BTW I was not advocating policy, but pointing out that sustainability is incompatible with our large and rapidly growing population. This is not just about energy, it's about resources, biospheres, energy and pollution all together. We are crossing, or have crossed, various thresholds that are destabilising the life support system of the earth, and causing mass extinctions. Theoretical calculations of energy use are often unrealistic, and often look only at energy, ignoring other factors.

I do not believe the number 300 trillion humans is possible to achieve, let alone sustain. It would require something like a hundred thousand times improvement in efficiency. Again, not just in energy, but in resource use (including land) and pollution. Unless you show me proper research which supports such numbers, I see no reason to give it any credit.
Digit diaspora
This is not just about energy, it’s about resources, biospheres, energy and pollution all together.
sorry if it appeared like i was implying it was only a matter of energy. i thought the way i said "resource management" several times made that clear that was not the sole (nor even main) focus.
I do not believe the number 300 trillion humans is possible to achieve, let alone sustain. It would require something like a hundred thousand times improvement in efficiency.
doable.
Again, not just in energy, but in resource use (including land) and pollution.
this of course would involve lots of multi-layering. huge arcology restructuring, reconstructing habitats. 300,000,000,000,000 is by no means a goal, nor trivial to acheive, but it is doable,

with proper resource management

Unless you show me proper research which supports such numbers, I see no reason to give it any credit.
how about just using some maths and imagination yourself?
i'm gonna bow outta this conversation, thinking i'm just causing exacerabations in the consideration-impeding convictions in the reasons shared by the pollution-excusing death cult.
Sorry for not reading your post more carefully where you mentioned resource management.
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